Petrus Gernus ex Majoratu ducis de Bois (born 1680's?) - who was he?

There were very few persons called Gernus in the Netherlands.

Although there was a Petrus Kennis * 19-02-1677 Riethoven.
Parents: Martinus Kennis(Keenes) x Eliza N.N.

Different manners of writing as for the -familyname-.

Kind regards.

Good afternoon Lars,

People from the Brabant region who travelled to and established themselves in Germany as of 1700, were mainly weavers, falconers and merchants (Krämer in German).

Since you have seen the marriage certificate and have knowledge of the family, would it be possible to provide us with names of witnesses?
Maybe we recognize some of the names.

The name Kenens is known in Brabant as well as in the Province of Limburg in Belgium.

Thanks to Norah and Geraldine for interesting replies.

Unfortunately neither the engagement document nor the wedding certificate have any names of witnesses. And I have found no information as far as Petrus' occupation is concerned. However, his wife Susanna JOCHUM, born in Illingen in 1681, had a father who came from a family of mineral workers («Bergwerksbauer») in Schröcken in the Province of Vorarlberg in Austria, so my guess is he may have done something similar(?). By the way, the engagement paper from 1707 shows a different place of origin. it looks like «ex Hemmel d.... Ducis de Bois».

Too bad I don't know how to copy the documents into this message, but you can see them here where I have asked for help to interpret the text:
https://forum.ahnenforschung.net/showthread.php?t=187665

Thanks again for your great assistance in this matter and take care!

Cordially yours,

Lars E. Oyane

Lars,
Thank you, additional info was helpful.
Have you seen documents about their children?
Have you seen the name of Johann Peter in the books, as a witness for his wife’s family?

It is correct that the text means Meijerij van 's Hertogenbosch'.
It covers the eastern part of the province and down to the south.
I would like to read the name as ex Lommel in the engagement paper.
During that time Lommel, was part of the quarter Kempenland van de Meierij van 's-Hertogenbosch
Lommel, is in the province Limburg, Belgium.
To search there, follow these steps:
Find the site for the national archive of Belgium
https://search.arch.be/en/
Create a free account and note your username and password.
Find this link on the second part of the homepage: Overview of church registers
This brings up all the provinces. Choose - Province Limburg
Scroll to Lommel, parochie Sint-Petrus
(looks like no more English from here)
Click on Parochieregisters. Index
Choose Parochieregisters. Alfabetische index van dopen
Click on the time range 00/00/1676 - 00/00/1808
If you have logged in, you see this line at the top
Gedigitaliseerde archiefdocumenten (142)
Next you can scroll 142 pages of names.
K starts at page 61, rightside
Documents of baptism, are not available.
You could look up a marriage of parents in an index as well.

In your info:
The Petrus Kennis baptized on April 3rd 1684 is from Contich, province of Antwerp, Belgium.

Regards

In addition to what Geraldine already shared..

Lars, - can we find the records of this family via Family Search?.
Could you share the names of some of their children, incl. their sponsors at baptism? Especially the oldest ones. Perhaps some of the sponsors could have been relatives 'from back home'.. though perhaps represented by local parishioners.

In the scan provided by you in the German forum I can't figure out the word just before 'ducis de Bois' yet. But the name before that - "Hemmel" in your opinion - can be read as "Hemmet" too I think... (compare with the 't' in Petrus or in Margareta).
You could ask for transcription help in this forum : https://watstaatdaer.nl/forum

Then it could be Hamont ( I think in local dialect pronounced as Häemet)- a place in 'De Kempen' (a region in the province of Brabant in The Netherlands and the province of Limburg in Belgium, and historically part of the Meijerij van 's-Hertogenbosch and as part of the Duchy of Brabant. [Nowadays the Meijerij van 's-Hertogenbosch is a much smaller area in the Dutch procince of Noord-Brabant].
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meierij_van_%27s-Hertogenbosch

The name Kenens, Kenes, Kenis and variants is known in this wider area as Geraldine already wrote.
And this name is also found in connection with the so-called Teuten.
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teut_(handel)
http://teuten.lingers.eu/
I came acrosse these names in the following books I have on my shelves:
- 'De Teuten, buitengaanders van de Kempen'
- 'Lommel, De vrijheid en Het Teutendorp'

Geraldine pointed out the travellers, falconers and merchants who left this region in Kempenland. It was not always to establish themselves In Germany, many returned 'home' to their families. Some found love abroad though and stayed on ;-) . In general they left their families for a few months to earn an income ( trading, offering their craftsmanship as tinkers, collecting hair that was to be used by wig makers, 'vets' who castrated cattle, etc.). They went as far away as the Moselle area in the south, Denmark in the north, and futher east towards the mountain ranges in Hessen in Germany.

You could also search via FS.
Lommel:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&placeId=157464&query=%2Bplace%3A%22Belgium%2C%20Limburg%2C%20Lommel%22%20%2Bavailability%3AOnline

Hamont
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&placeId=157402&query=%2Bplace%3A%22Belgium%2C%20Limburg%2C%20Hamont%22%20%2Bavailability%3AOnline

and try other places in this area as well

Thanks a million to Geraldine and Helena for new interesting contributions!

I have tried several times to join the site of the Belgian archives, but I just don't manage to get in! Apparently I do something wrong... It seems like I may have to call them for help. Then I could perhaps speak French, since that's easier for me (I lived in la Wallonie for five years in the 1980's...).

It is interesting to notice that Petrus KENES may have come from Limburg in Belgium, but before I start ij detail to search, it would be greast to know exactly ehere to look, so I have posted an inquiry in the https://watstaatdaer.nl/forum

See whether anyone answers. I have so far no certain answers from Germany...

I have further examined the parish records in Illingen. Petrus KENES died Sep. 30, 1723, but neither age nor profession is given. With Susanna he had at least six children including two sets of twins:

* 12.2.1712: Anna Catharina und Anna Francisca KENUS - sponsors Johann Keßler with Anna Catharina Keßler and Peter Dich with Anna Francisca Dich

* 5.4.1715 Johann Mathias (here the father is called Johann Peter KENES!) - sponsors Johann Mathias Jochem with Elisabeth Woll

* 11.6.1718 Laurentius and Johann Peter - sponsors Laurentius Boalze(?) with Susanna Weiß and Johann Peter Hell with Elisabeth Balles(?)

* 23.12.1721 Anna Barbara - sponsors Conradus Dhur and Anna Barbara Höhnel

Most of these sponsors seem to come from the neighborhood, but the DICH couple from 1712 is completely unknown!

Thanks again for your great assistance in this matter! I don't easily give up, so sooner or later this Petrus GERNUS shall be found!

Very sincerely yours,

Lars E. Oyane

- It seems that the children are named after their sponsors.. [ and not- as I hoped for- giving us a clue who the paternal grandparents could be...not yet..]. Are these baptism entries online in FS or just via the index as one can see? Or do you have copies of these entries?
- Wondering about the baptism in 1712. You mention two couples (must be for the twins), and one of them an uncommon name in Illingen in your experience...is - perhaps - one couple noted as 'in nomine' or 'loco' ?
- Can the other sponsors be traced to families in Illingen?

- They married in Jan. 1708 and one would expect the first children not too long after that date. However, the first child you mention is from 1712? They lived during the turbulent years of the Spanish Succession war etc. and perhaps..with a husband not often home..these twins could have been their first born?

The name Kenens (and variants) is certainly a name that appeared / appears in quite a few places in the wider region already mentioned by us. [ and by others in the other forum --
https://www.stamboomforum.nl/familienamen/2/76170/0/hans_petrus_gernus_born_1680_85inshertogenbosch_married_saarland_germany_1708_who_was_he ]

In the CD-Rom ' Genealogie uit Limburg (B) ' - have an older version though - and browsing through the names it is obvious to me that this name and variants is common in this region. [ The index gives me quite a few and perhaps in a younger version of this program (on USB stick now) the total could be higher). Have a look at what is now in this 2020 - index. http://www.pro-gen.be/namenusb2020/vzidx.htm . The number behind the name refers to the totals. http://www.pro-gen.be/index.htm

To mention a few general sites
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limburg_(Belgische_provincie)
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kempen_(streek)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campine

I am sure your search goes into the right direction >> Ducis de Bois >> Meijerij van 's-Hertogenbosch >> ??? it is a question of interpreting the place name correctly and hoping the church records are available for that place.

@Helena and other readers,
where you able to see the picture Gernus Jochem (2).jpg in the first link Lars gave us? I copied the name of the picture into Google and came in his Norwegian site.
https://forum.arkivverket.no/topic/245603-gernus-ein-familie-fr%C3%A5-shertogenbosch-i-noord-brabant-nederland-1680/

The picture is of the schepenhuwelijk.

I said Lommel but if I look again it is more Gemmel.

@Geraldine, - yes, I could see the picture since - in the past- I used to be on that same forum in Germany for my own German research and my login was still valid.
It could be helpful to see the full page and see how the letters are written in other entries.

Right, it is not a G, more an H.
I did not see any scan on familysearch, just the scripts.
Germany, Rhineland, Diocese of Trier, Catholic Church Records, 1704-1957

Thanks again to Helena and Geraldine for wonderful attempts trying to help me locate the origin of this Petrus GERNUS!

Now, looking at the marriage record of the next couple in the Illingen engagement and marriage books, this is for a (Johann) Mathias HELL and Margaretha BALTES. The first letter H is quite clearly the same as for Petrus' origin, so it definitely says «ex HAMMEL ...... Ducis de BOIS», but what is the word in between.

I have studied this name very long today, and wonder if it doesn't end with -ch. Could it be «de Urch»? Is there any local name sounding like this in «Majoratu Ducis de BOIS»?

Thanks again for your wonderful assistance!

Cordially yours,

Lars E. Oyane

Dear Listers!

I forgot to add the following: While Susanna JOCHUM's padents had both died by 1707 (defuncti), Petrus' father Andreas GERNUS was apparently still alive!

I also forgot to say about the children. The birth records prior to 1712 appear not to be quite complete, so any children born between 1708 and 1712 may be missing...

Thanks again for any little «bit and piece» of information you may be able to find!

Cordially yours,

Lars E. Oyane

I saw the record of 1707 and it says literally: ex hemmel de Nois ducis de bois'.
Nois is I think a Latin abbreviation (above the 'n' is an abbreviation sign) meaning 'Nominis' which I think is the genitive form of 'Nomen'. Difficult to say with certainty what 'Nominis' here means but a possibility is 'confederancy' or 'bond', some other translations, circling between 'confederancy' and 'nation' are possible also.

nominis: genaamd ?
Hemmel> verbasterd/verkeerd opgeschreven Helmond ?/Empel

de nominis >>> out of? from? named? called?

Thanks a million to Michiel, Jan and Helena for new thoughts on this name!

I am not too sure of that Nois interpretation... Although the end could be ois or oes - compare with Jois (abbr. of Johann) Weißerbach on the third line from the bottom - on the other hand we have the -bach ending...

I did receive a suggestion from Germany the name could refer to one of the Polders northeast of 's-Hertogenbosch called Hoog HEEMAAL or Laag HEEMAAL, also known as Hoog HEMMEL and Laag HEMMEL; can be viewed on this old map: https://www.catawiki.com/l/9115125-noord-brabant-oostt-brabant-isaak-tirion-new-map-of-the-meiery-of-s-hertogenbosch-1755

This area is still within the «Meiery»!
Towns in Laag Hemmel include Alem, Maren und Kessel.
Towns in Hoog Hemmel seem to include Lith, Lithojen and maybe Nuland and Oss?

What do you think?

Thanks again for any suggestions!

Very sincerely yours,

Lars E. Oyane

Me again, looking closer at a current map, the entire area of the HEMMEL Polders seem be within the County of OSS!

Could that «mysterious» name between Hemmel and Ducis de Bois be something like «de UOSCH» = OSS?

Lots of Catholic churches in this area, but how old are they: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Oss+Netherland+catholic+churches&npsic=0&rflfq=1&rlha=0&rllag=51760470,5524880,1099&tbm=lcl&ved=2ahUKEwjYv8-BsM3oAhUNQxUIHaTYAOcQjGp6BAgJEDY&tbs=lrf:!1m4!1u3!2m2!3m1!1e1!1m4!1u2!2m2!2m1!1e1!2m1!1e2!2m1!1e3!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:2&rldoc=1#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:[[52.26430323397962,6.140667804265023],[51.3292508659384,4.739910968327523],null,[51.799200872349076,5.440289386296273],10]

Are we maybe approaching an answer to this great challenge?

Thanks again for your wonderful assistance!

Cordially yours,

Lars E. Oyane

Looking at what Jan lange writes Hemmel = Helmond? it is interesting to note that one Augustinus Kennis and one Peter Kennis appear in the notarial records of a Helmond notaris around 1700: https://www.rhc-eindhoven.nl/collectie?mivast=48&miadt=48&mizig=100&miview=tbl&milang=nl&micols=1&misort=dt%7Casc&mip1=ken*&mip5=helmond&mibj=1670&miej=1730&mib1=224

In the open flaps of the + under the name of the person in the database of the Regionaal historisch centrum Eindhoven then appears a remark 'overleden' (=dead) but when controlling other names in notarial records of this Helmond notary it appears all names of persons have the remark 'overleden' so this should be a bugg in the systems. One might assume they are all dead by now, but not in that contemporary time. So one have to check de original minutes of the notarial records but my guess this that this Peter Kennis was alive in 1703. When having in mind what Norah says - a Peter Kennis who was baptized in Riethoven in 1677- which is not far from Helmond, than this is interesting enough to search further in the Kempen and in Helmond.

[ sorry Lars, not in English ..perhaps tomorrow (or others can explain to you) , ..my evening has started where I live..]

@Michiel, -In de publicatie ' De protocollen der Helmondsche Notarissen (1595-1798)' van Aug. Sassen vind je de regesten van enkele van deze akten.

Notaris Dirck Deckers
- 21 maart 1701
Dit is een lang regest wat ik nu niet helemaal neerpen, maar daarin wordt de heer Augustinus Kennis genoemd als Roomsch priester tot Helmondt. In dit verband het bekende verhaal over de bekeerlinge Sophia Aelberts die vanuit Helmond naar Venray gevlucht was en zich aan ouderlijk gezag onttrokken had. [ van protestant <-> naar rooms-katholiek]. Zag scan van deel van deze akte op: https://www.brabantserfgoed.nl/personen/a/alberts-sophia

Notaris Dirck Deckers
- 28 mei 1703
Als erfgenamen van Paulus Kennis en zijn echtgenoote Maria Dielis worden genoemd: Jacobus Reyns, gehuwd met Helena Quers;
diens oom Thomas Porters, als vader en voogd van de minderjarige kinderen, verwekt bij wijlen zijne echtgenoote Isabella Robert;
mr Peter Kennis;
de kinderen van diens zuster Elisabeth Kennis;
Joost Kennis en de andere kinderen van wijlen Dirck Kennis;
François de Cos, als gehuwd met Maria Kennis.
De goederen , tot de nalatenschap behoorende, lagen te Middelburg

Thanks a million to Michiel and Helena for new contributions!

I have looked more at the engagement record for Petrus Gernus, and maybe you Michiel are indeed correct about your interpretation. Maybe what it says is:

«ex Hemmel de Nöis Ducis de Bois», or, in modern language:

«from Hemmel so called 's-Hertogenbosch».

So, Hemmel is no doubt the place in the Meiery we have to look for.

I put the 1703 document from Helmond into google translation and got ein English:

As heirs of Paulus Kennis and his wife Maria Dielis are mentioned:
* Jacobus Reyns, married to Helena Quers;
* his uncle Thomas Porters, father and guardian of the minor children, fathered by his late wife Isabella Robert;
* mr Peter Kennis;
* the children of his sister Elisabeth Kennis;
* Joost Kennis and the other children of the late Dirck Kennis;
* François de Cos, as married to Maria Kennis.
The goods, which belong to the estate, were in Middelburg

I have subsequently tried to find trace of this family on ancestry.com, but all I find is this birth in Riethoven from 1677:

Kind
Petrus Kennis
Vader
Martinus Kennis
Moeder
Eliza
Getuige
Henricus Peters van Dommelen
Getuige
Heijlke Jans
Gebeurtenis
Doop
Datum
19-02-1677
Gebeurtenisplaats
Riethoven
Documenttype
DTB Dopen
Erfgoedinstelling
Regionaal Historisch Centrum Eindhoven
Plaats instelling
Eindhoven
Collectiegebied
Noord-Brabant
Archief
10225
Registratienummer
34.3
Pagina
2v
Registratiedatum
19-02-1677
Akteplaats
Riethoven
Collectie
Doop-, trouw- en begraafboek Riethoven

I don't think this can be the one we are looking for. «Our» Petrus had Andreas as father, and this Andreas was apparently still alive in 1707.

Going back to the 1703 document I am unable to find any of the persons mentioned in any church records from the area. However, there is a mention of property in MIDDELBURG, which is far from Noort-Brabant!!

And something else: If Andreas KENNIS was still alive, why is then Petrus listed as an heir?

Thanks again for your wonderful and very much appreciated efforts to figure out a solution to my challenge!

Cordially yours and stay healthy!

Lars E. Oyane

Three remarks regarding the text of the marriage record:
- no mention is made up til now of the name of Petrus' father: it says 'Andreae Gein...'. Unfortunately the rest of the last word, most likely the surname of this Andreas, is not legible. Could it be 'Geinus'? Looking again, with this in mind, at the word after Petrus, I'm increasingly doubtful that the third letter is an 'r', but more likely an 'i' (compare the other 'r'-s on the scan).
- after 'Hemmel' I read 'ditionis' from the latin ditio / dicio = rule, domain. See e.g. hhttps://proxy.archieven.nl/235/3E6AD30FF4E7441299224A9ACB83E25D: Accuratissima ditionis Sylvae-Ducensis Tabula = a most accurate map of the region of 's-Hertogenbosch.
- the identification of 'ducis de Bois' with 's-Hertogenbosch (Buscoducis) is on first sight understandable but on second thought doubtful. Ducis is latin, Bois is french, a very strange combination in a german/latin marriage certificate.

Thank you very much, Anton, for an interesting comment!

Looking at the engagement record, you will notice that the Pastor always wrote a ` over the u's, but like in Petrus' last name GERNUS it is placed BEFORE the u. And here the book page has been folded in the middle, so the -US ending is «hidden»...

As far as the word(s) between Hemmel and Ducis is concerned, I just commented on that in my latest entry. But I am still uncertain what is correct...

When it comes to Ducis de Bois, I have understood that this was a «typical» way of expressing 's-Hertogenbosch in those days, when Saarland was partly under French leadership, and I know of no other town with a similar name...

Thanks again for your wonderful assistance!

Cordially yours,

Lars E. Oyane

's-Hertogenbosch:
https://www.erfgoedshertogenbosch.nl/uploads/media/594a9af70fb2b/naamvarianten-s-hertogenbosch-v10.pdf

I missed the other act where it says 'ex majoratu ducis de Bois'. For me that's a convincing argument that this is a reference to the 'meierij van 's-Hertogenbosch' / 'mairie de Bois-le-Duc'.
@Helena: I am aware of the different ways 's-Hertogenbosch is named (Buscoducis, Sylvaducis in latin, Bois-le-Duc in french), but what I wanted to point out is that I've never encountered this particular combination of part latin part french words (It's not mentioned in the document you link to). It makes you wonder how this strange combination ended up in this particular church record: did Peter show a written certificate that was somehow mixed up by the pastor, or did he state his place of birth orally, in such a way that the pastor misunderstood? The same goes for the birthplace 'Hemmel', which is obviously a corruption of a placename in the Meierij van 's-Hertogenbosch.

On a old map of the province North Brabant (illustration on the cover of the magazine MERLET) I see the name of the village Gemert written as Ghemel.

The statement "ex majoratu ducis de Bois" seems clear to me. Like Anton, I think Peter had a document with him that said it. Possibly an extract from a baptismal certificate or a passport to be allowed to act. He may have explained it himself.
It seems clear to me that we have to find his birthplace in "the Meierij of 's-Hertogenbosch". We do not know a place with the name Hemmel, nor does it have a place that is pronounced in dialect. Helmond is not eligible. In the local dialect, the emphasis was put on the L (Hellimond). I think the closest is Lommel, as Geraldine indicated on April 1, 2020 at 2:46 AM. Lommel belonged to the Meierij van 's-Hertogenbosch reported under the Kempenland quarter. From 1648 Lommel belonged to the Republic of the Seven United Netherlands. In 1817 Lommel transferred from the province of Noord-Brabant to the province of Limburg. In exchange, Luyksgestel came from the province of Antwerp to the province of Noord-Brabant in 1819. After the separation from Belgium, Lommel became Belgian territory.
The name Lommel may have been misread. A capital H instead of a capital L and an e instead of an o is not inconceivable.
If you go through the indexes on the parish registers of Lommel, the name Kenens appears 13 times, also Keenens 6 times, Kennins 3 times and Knowledge once. Unfortunately, no son Petrus from an Andreas father, but the baptism of an Andreas Kennis son by Andreas Kenens and Anna Slegers on 21-09-1680.

and Knowledge once has to be and Kennis once.

Moet misschien vermeld worden dat de doopindex Lommel loopt over 1676-1808, het doopboek zelf staat niet op de site van de Belgische rijksarchiefdienst (dus niet meer aanwezig?). Van vóór 1676 staat geen doopindex van Lommel op genoemde site.
De trouwindex Lommel 1676-1808 (trouwboek zelf ook niet op de site) vermeldt geen Andreas Kenens, maar de naam Petrus was in de Kenens familie(s) niet onbekend:
Kenens, Petrus x Maria Gecurs 18 januari 1682
Kenens, Petrus x Joanna Aerts 19 april 1697
Mogelijkheden die open blijven, naast andere mogelijkheden: Er is een Petrus, zoon van Andreas Kenens geboren vóór 1676; degene die de index heeft gemaakt (naar ik vermoed in de 19e eeuw), heeft een foutje gemaakt bij het overschrijven van de doop van 21 september 1680.
Ook ik heb de doopregisters doorgenomen, maar geen enkele Petrus zoon van Andreas gevonden.

In 2000 is er een overdracht geweest van het parochiearchief Lommel 1759-1968 aan het Rijksarchief met daarin onderstaande doopboeken:
10 1759-1859. 1759-1859 1 deel
11 1822-1859. 1822-1859 1 deel

Ik kan bij arch.be geen oudere doopboeken vinden, alleen de klappers.

Familysearch heeft wel scans van het doopboek:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C3M1-F9P7-H?i=875&cat=49114
Een uitsnede van de akte van 21-9-1680: https://i.postimg.cc/J7FP47xy/Clipboard01.jpg

We weten nu van het voorkomen van een Andreas Kenens in Lommel. Mogelijk is er inderdaad een zoon Petrus geboren vóór 1676.
Mogelijk kan er nog iets gevonden worden in het archief van de schepenbank Lommel aanwezig bij het Rijksarchief in Hasselt.
Misschien zij er personen die de archieven van de schepenbank hebben doorgenomen of geïndiceerd. Erfgoed Lommel kan daar waarschijnlijk antwoord op geven: https://erfgoedlommel.be/

De naam Andreas of Andries Kenens komt meer voor, van het internet:
Catharina Michiels (1687-1709) trouwt Overpelt 22 jan. 1707 Andreas Kenens, ged. Overpelt 27 sept. 1681 (hij trouwt daarna nog 2 keer).

Schepenakte - Verklaring van Maria Gerrit Meussen ten behoeve van Wijnanda van den Bour aangaande haar gedrag., 3-10-1729
Code NTI-10203-80
Collectie Index Schepenbank Bergeijk, Riethoven, Westerhoven, Borkel en Schaft
Id 3415292
Registratiedatum 3-10-1729
Registratieplaats Bergeijk, Riethoven, Westerhoven, Borkel en Schaft
Aktenummer 357v
Soort akte Attestatie
Inventarisnummer 80
Persoon in RA Meussen, Maria Gerrit Cocx, Hendrik Bour van den, Wijnanda Goossens, Andries Kenens, Mattheus Corstiaans, Goijert Kerkhoff, Jan...

Analecta Praemonstratensia, vol. 58 pagina 249: Andreas Kenens, fil. Joannis et Petronellae Brants, nat. in Mol 26 ap. 1573, enz. priester.

In het boek van Knapen, Lommel de vrijheid en het teutendorp, worden familieleden Kenens meermalen als teut genoemd, ook connecties met Duitsland in het boek aangewezen. (Google Books, fragmenten).

En de kerngebieden van de Lommelse teutenhandel: allereerst het gebied tussen Moezel en Rijn: het Trierse, Paltz, Lotharingen, Elzas; vervolgens het gebied tussen Maas en Rijn en het gebeid tussen Lahn en Main .. en dan in mindere mate Nederland, Frankenland (D), Luxemburg.[ boek van R. Knaepen : 'Lommel de vrijheid en het teutendorp' , pag 56-57 ]

Op deze site een naamlijst van teuten uit Duitse gewesten: https://www.bijvoet.org/content/index.php/familieartikelen/31-sub-onze-artikelen/109-teuten-uit-duitse-gewesten-totale-naamlijst

Daar o.m. Kenens uit Overpelt en ook in 1765 in Lengenich een Peter van Gumbet uit 'Hommel = Lommel?'!

Op www.openarch.nl kan gezocht worden in de doop- en trouwregisters van Lommel, daaruit vallen mogelijk aanwijzingen te halen.
Ik vond o.a.
Andreas Kenens, peter bij een doop Lommel 14 dec. 1678.
Andreas Korst Kenens, peter bij een doop Lommel 27 aug. 1678.

A family to look at:
On Jan. 22 1703 were married in Lommel Dijmphna Kenens and Joannes van Hooff.
They will have at least 5 children in Lommel.
3 of them Elisabeth, Anna and Catharina are mentioned in 1752 in the last will of Mathias Kenens.
Elisabeth is married to Theodorus van Heeswijk, miller in Lommel in 1737.
Anna is married to Joannes van Ham. They have a son Hendrik (also mentioned in the testament)
There is a family relationship between Dijmhna and Mathias.
Mathias could be her brother. He is a roman catholic priest and served as pastor in Riethoven and before as loco in Heeze in 1703.

Brabantse Leeuw 1958 blz. 66
NAAMLIJST VAN STUDENTEN, AFKOMSTIG UIT DE MEIJERIJ STUDEREND AAN DE
LEUVENSE UNIVERSITEIT 1654-1796
blz. 66: 1688 Matthaeus Kenens, Lommel, in Heeze vice-pastoor, postea pastoor te Riethoven

archieven.nl
139 Rekest van Johannes Helsemans rooms werelds priester en kapelaan te Oisterwijk die zijn zending heeft ontvangen als pastoor te Riethoven in kwartier Kempenland in de plaats van Mattheus Kewens die volgens diens declaratoir, bij het rekest ingevoegd, vermits hoge ouderdom afstand heeft gedaan van die pastorie en Johannes verzoekt om een akte van admissie of consent, die hem verleend wordt omdat hij voldoet aan de eigen zoals gesteld in de resolutie van 19 juli 1730 en wat hij nog moet doen is zijn handtekening plaatsen onder een verklaring die in een speciaal register wordt bewaard 24 juli 1749 Oisterwijk / Riethoven

RHCE
Mattheus Kenens Persoon in NA Eindhoven 1752
34 Notariele akte, 1752
NTI-15105-212 Index op het notarieel archief van, Eindhoven notaris Willem de With junior
34 Notariele akte, 1752

Following is copied from geneanet.org. Specially the last sentence is intriguing
N.A.Eindhoven 1277-34 d.d. 15-09-1752.
Compareerde Matheus Kenings afgetreden rooms pastoor te Rijthoven, maakt testament: hij vermaakt aan zijn bloedvrienden Dirik van Heeswijk en Elisabeth van Hooff wonend te Dommelen zijn woonhuys etc. binnen Rijthoven.
Universeel erfgenaam van de roerende goederen Elisabet van Hooff,huisvrouw van Dirik van Heeswijk, Catharina van Hooff ende Hendrik vanHam, soone van Anneke van Hooff, in egte verwekt bij Jan van Ham, wonend te Lommel. Mitsgaders .... dogter van Peeter Keenings, wonend Duytselandt zijn nigt en neef respectievelijk.

Still a lot to solve..

There were many "teuten" in the Kenens family and therefore also many connections with Germany. I found the following people on the Teutenkamer website.

Lommel:
Kenens, Corstiaan, koopman, Rosheim
Kenens, Hendrik, koperhandel, Stolberg
Kenens, Jan, absent
Kenens, Peter, koperteut

Overpelt:
Kenens, Arnoldus, handelaar, geboren 1801
Kenens, Art, koopman, Middelburg
Kenens,Cornelis, Leiden
Kenens, Dirick, textiel, Nederlanden, geboren 1633
Kenens, Gerardus, koopman, ketellapper, geboren 1781
Kenens, Henricus, ketellapper, geboren 1762
Kenens, Jan, ketelboeter/lakens, Evervelde/Amersfoort, geboren 1597
Kenens, Joost, ketelboeter, geboren 1666
Kenens, Lucas, lakenhandelaar
Kenens, Paul, Horner
Kenis, Michiel, handelaar, geboren 1806
Kenis, Michiel Gerard, geboren 1731

Eksel:
Kenens, Dierick, Land van Gulick
Kenens, Jacob, Akenbrug
Kenens, Johanna, Akenbrug

Kleine-Brogel:
Kenens, Paulus, koopman, geboren 1809

The notary act mentioned by Geraldine (mentioning ... daughter of Peeter Keenings, living in Germany, his niece and nephew respectively) is probably this one:
https://www.rhc-eindhoven.nl/collectie?mivast=48&mizig=236&miadt=48&miaet=54&micode=NTI-15105-212&minr=18105094&miview=ldt
Unfortunately no scans are available. It would be interesting to see what/who exactly is mentioned here. At first glance it looks like a likely connection with Lars' Petrus Gernus.

See Kenens in Overpelt: Google: Gezinnen in Overpelt-Genea Page; Diverse families Kenens there.

So many wonderful messages have arrived regarding the problem of identifying Petrus GERNUS alias Peter KENUS/KENES. Thank you all so very much!!

Some of what you write is in Dutch, but thanks to google translation I can make out most of it!

Early this morning Geraldine wrote this:

«RHCE
Mattheus Kenens Persoon in NA Eindhoven 1752
34 Notariele akte, 1752
NTI-15105-212 Index op het notarieel archief van, Eindhoven notaris Willem de With junior
34 Notariele akte, 1752

Following is copied from geneanet.org. Specially the last sentence is intriguing
N.A.Eindhoven 1277-34 d.d. 15-09-1752.
Compareerde Matheus Kenings afgetreden rooms pastoor te Rijthoven, maakt testament: hij vermaakt aan zijn bloedvrienden Dirik van Heeswijk en Elisabeth van Hooff wonend te Dommelen zijn woonhuys etc. binnen Rijthoven.
Universeel erfgenaam van de roerende goederen Elisabet van Hooff,huisvrouw van Dirik van Heeswijk, Catharina van Hooff ende Hendrik vanHam, soone van Anneke van Hooff, in egte verwekt bij Jan van Ham, wonend te Lommel. Mitsgaders .... dogter van Peeter Keenings, wonend Duytselandt zijn nigt en neef respectievelijk.»

Although Mattheus obviously had written a will, where some of his heirts may have been left out, this information obviously seems to point towards «my» Peter and one of his daughters in Saarland, and I feel the notary act referred to by Anton would be of great value if it could be made available (WHERE IS IT?): https://www.rhc-eindhoven.nl/collectie?mivast=48&mizig=236&miadt=48&miaet=54&micode=NTI-15105-212&minr=18105094&miview=ldt

And it does sound very likely that Peter was indeed a «Teuten Händler» from Lommel. His name also figures on the list presented by Egbert this morning.

«Lommel:
Kenens, Corstiaan, koopman, Rosheim
Kenens, Hendrik, koperhandel, Stolberg
Kenens, Jan, absent
Kenens, Peter, koperteut»

... whatever a koperteut is - maybe a teuter trading with copper items?

I feel we are approaching a solution as to who Peter GERNUS/KENES may have been, and I thank you all again for any additional information that can be found. My guess now is that he was a son of Andreas and born prior to 1676 in Lommel, a brother of the Preacher Mattheus KENENS!?

Very cordially yours and stay healthy!

Lars E. Oyane

With google translation:

Er zijn zoveel prachtige berichten binnengekomen over het probleem van het identificeren van Petrus GERNUS alias Peter KENUS / KENES. Heel erg bedankt !!

Een deel van wat je schrijft is in het Nederlands, maar dankzij Google-vertaling kan ik het meeste onderscheiden!

Vanmorgen vroeg schreef Geraldine dit:

«RHCE
Mattheus Kenens Persoon in NA Eindhoven 1752
34 Notariele akte, 1752
NTI-15105-212 Index op het notarieel archief van, Eindhovense notaris Willem de With junior
34 Notariele akte, 1752

Het volgende is gekopieerd van geneanet.org. Vooral de laatste zin is intrigerend
N.A. Eindhoven 1277-34 d.d. 15-09-1752.
Compareerde Matheus Kenings afgetreden kamers pastoor te Rijthoven, maakt testament: hij vermaakt aan zijn bloedvrienden Dirik van Heeswijk en Elisabeth van Hooff wonend te Dommelen zijn woonhuys etc. binnen Rijthoven.
Universeel erfgenaam van de roerende goederen Elisabet van Hooff, huisvrouw van Dirik van Heeswijk, Catharina van Hooff ende Hendrik vanHam, soone van Anneke van Hooff, in egte verwekt bij Jan van Ham, wonend te Lommel. Mitsgaders .... dogter van Peeter Keenings, wonend Duytselandt zijn nigt en neef respectievelijk. »

Hoewel Mattheus duidelijk een testament had opgemaakt, waarin sommige van zijn heir mogelijk zijn weggelaten, lijkt deze informatie duidelijk te wijzen naar «mijn» Peter en een van zijn dochters in Saarland, en ik denk dat de notarisakte waarnaar Anton verwijst zou zijn van grote waarde als het beschikbaar zou kunnen worden gemaakt (WAAR IS HET?): https://www.rhc-eindhoven.nl/collectie?mivast=48&mizig=236&miadt=48&miaet=54&micode=NTI-15105-212&minr=18105094&miview=ldt

En het klinkt heel waarschijnlijk dat Peter inderdaad een «Teuten Händler» uit Lommel was. Zijn naam komt ook voor op de lijst die Egbert vanmorgen heeft gepresenteerd.

«Lommel:
Kenens, Corstiaan, koopman, Rosheim
Kenens, Hendrik, koperhandel, Stolberg
Kenens, Jan, afwezig
Kenens, Peter, koperteut »

... wat een koperteut ook is - misschien een teuter die handelt in koperen items?

Ik heb het gevoel dat we een oplossing naderen voor wie Peter GERNUS / KENES is geweest, en ik dank u allen nogmaals voor alle aanvullende informatie die u kunt vinden. Ik vermoed nu dat hij een zoon van Andreas was en geboren vóór 1676 in Lommel, een broer van de prediker Mattheus KENENS !?

Heel hartelijk van jou en blijf gezond!

Lars E. Oyane

Regarding the notary act from Eindhoven: I've asked the Regional Historical Center Eindhoven for a scan. I guess this will probably take a while due to the Corona-measures.

The Dymphna Kenens (6 april 2020 om 03:27 uur) has as father a Jacobus.

Lars:
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teut_(handel) then switch to German

Lars, - firstly, I have to correct something I wrote on 1 april 2020 om 06:09 uur about Hamont (B). That place was not part of the Meijerij van 's-Hertogenbosch. https://www.hamontachel.com/geschiedenis-van-hamont-achel/

- Indeed, would be interesting to see what/who exactly is mentioned in the mentioned act of 1752.
'...... dogter van Peeter Keenings, wonend Duytselandt zijn nigt en neef respectievelijk...'
They could have been of the same generation (cousins) of the testator - Matheus Kenings- or he was of a generation earlier to both or to one of them? Neef = cousin (same generation) or nephew (next generation). Nicht = either cousin or niece. Wait and see...

- Lommel: In 1648 the R.K. parish church was also seized by the Protestants and the villagers had to go to church in the neighbouring villages of Luyksgestel and Pelt.

- There are many references to the Lommel - Schepenprotocollen [ Aldermen protocols]. I in the book 'Lommel. De Vrijheid en het Teutendorp' , but I read that the oldest protocols date from 1685-

Archives Schepenbank Lommel 1685-1808. Available for at the State Archives in Hasselt. As far as I know there are no scans available. A connection between Petrus Gernus in Illingen and Lommel can only be demonstrated if he is mentioned in a protocol in Lommel or elsewhere after he lives in Illingen, for example if he is mentioned in an division of goods, sale or in connection with trading activities it will be after 1685.

Archief Schepenbank Lommel 1685-1808. Ter inzage bij het Rijksarchief in Hasselt. Zover ik weet zijn er geen scans beschikbaar. Een connectie tussen Petrus Gernus in Illingen en Lommel kan alleen worden aangetoond als hij in een protocol in Lommel of elders wordt genoemd nadat hij in Illingen woont, bijvoorbeeld als hij wordt genoemd in een boedeldeling, verkoop of in verband met handelsactiviteiten zal dat na 1685 zijn.

I just got a reply from the RHC EIndhoven: they can't provide us with a scan for the duration of the corona-crisis. I'm afraid we'll have to wait at least a few weeks before we can find out what's said in the notary act regarding the 'daughter of Peeter Keenings, living in Germany'...

Thank you all so very much for more wonderful messages. It was great that Geraldine discovered the 1752 notary act in the first place, and I appreciate so much that Anton inquired about it from the RHC in Eindhoven.

My guess is the baptism of Andreas Kennis to Andreas Kenens and Anna Slegers at Lommel on Sep. 21, 1680 leads to «our» family...!

I feel we just have to wait for the Corona virus to pass by and hopefully we'll then get a final answer to our question. The «odds» are very good.

Thanks again for helping me out in this matter!

PS: In the meantime I have also gotten a good understanding of the TEUTER occupation! Thanks!

Cordially yours,

Lars E. Oyane

Hello Lars,
The answers on Stamboomforum as of March 29 and BHIC as of March 30 were quite helpful to you.
Since Dymphna Kenens is in my family, I would like to find the original records, as you did.
Could you please reveil your source(s)?
Please find following notation:
Lommel, March 28, 1704, daughter Elisabetha for Joannes van Hove and Dymphna (Jacobus) Kenens, witness is Anna Appolonia Coen, from Germania.( could be Küen Kiefer,Kuen, Kühn).
Regards

Dear Geraldine!

Thank you very much for your latest message! I am sorry for the late reply, but I was somewhat confused what you really ask for. I presume that you, just like myself, are anxiously waiting for the Archives to open up again making the Notary Act from 1752 available for further examination?

My wife descends from Petrus GERNUS, and I already listed his children over, all born in Illingen parish in Landkreis Neunkirchen in present-day Saarland:

* 12.2.1712: Anna Catharina und Anna Francisca KENUS - sponsors Johann Keßler with Anna Catharina Keßler and Peter Dich with Anna Francisca Dich

* 5.4.1715 Johann Mathias (here the father is called Johann Peter KENES!) - sponsors Johann Mathias Jochem with Elisabeth Woll

* 11.6.1718 Laurentius and Johann Peter - sponsors Laurentius Boalze(?) with Susanna Weiß and Johann Peter Hell with Elisabeth Balles(?)

* 23.12.1721 Anna Barbara - sponsors Conradus Dhur and Anna Barbara Höhnel

They are all on this film from FamilySearch:

Taufen 1671-1708 Heiraten 1689-1715 Tote 1688-1715 items 4-6. Taufen 1708-1774
Family History Library
International Film
464782
Items 3-6
8105180

They may not be available online, but I had your e-mail address, I could send you scans of these records which I have received from Salt Lake City, UT

Thanks again for your great assistance in this matter!

Cordially yours,

Lars E. Oyane

Hello Lars,
Protocol here is, when we both agree, BHIC will exchange our e-mail addresses and I agree. Thank you.
Stay well.

Dear Geraldine,

I already agreed over...

You also stay well, no corona, neither beer nor virus!!

Cordially yours,

Lars E. Oyane

Thank you for your messages, Lars and Geraldine. We will exchange your e-mail addresses and we will remove your e-mail addresse above, Lars. We don't want you to receive any unwanted messages.

My thinking was you had taken copies of the familysearch org. at a family History Library, in one of the cities listed in Europe.
There is one in Eindhoven de Koppele 1

On my research for Lommel I landed at https://erfgoedlommel.be
Which then guided me to https://www.bskempen.be/
Here you can download Excel files of church books of villages in the Antwerpse Kempen.
Lommel baptisms start at 1676.
Trof daar de doop van Dymphna genioemd in mijn bijdrage van 6 apr.

Vooral het huwelijksregister is de moeite waard. Vanaf 1757 worden de doopplaatsen van bruidegom en bruid genoteerd. In Lommel trouwen veel Brabantse bruidegoms.

Dear Geraldine!

I have already sent you the copies of these records (death of Peter KENES and births of his children) which I received directly from the main library at Salt Lake City, UT. I hope you have received them OK!

I have never personally visited any of the Family History Libraries in Europe, except for once stopping in at the library at Bad Homburg near Frankfurt for donating some of my books.

Cordially yours,

Lars E. Oyane

Het is vandaag kerstavond en ik neem aan dat er nog steeds geen vooruitgang is bij het naleven van de notariswet uit 1752:

«RHCE
Mattheus Kenens Persoon in NA Eindhoven 1752
34 Notariele akte, 1752
NTI-15105-212 Index op het notarieel archief van, Eindhoven notaris Willem de With junior
34 Notariele akte, 1752 »

Ik ben zeer optimistisch wat betreft deze Peter Kenens-dochter die in Duitsland woont en het ontvangen van een kopie van deze notariswet zou het beste kerstcadeau zijn dat ik me ooit kan voorstellen!

Nogmaals bedankt voor jullie geweldige hulp in deze kwestie!

Met vriendelijke groet en Merry Christmas,

Lars E. Oyane

Jammer dat de scan van akte waarvan AntonS op 6 april 2020 om 18:49 meldt dat hij het RHCe daarom heeft gevraagd niet geleverd is.
Je kunt zelf het RHCe vragen om een scan:
https://www.rhc-eindhoven.nl/contactformulier

Dat zal echter voor de kerst niet meer lukken.

Fijne dagen en een gezond 2021 !