Familienforschung in Holland

Reacties (91)

Norah zei op 18 april 2018 om 23:59

This person was still alive Jan. 19th, 1804 > notarial deed at Breda.
I guess he was born prox. 1725, but where? Maybe at Broekhuijsen(the castle) near Leersum(Utrecht), and also died there....?

Max zei op 19 april 2018 om 00:46

In the marriage notice of 02-04-1750 it is stated, that he was Captain Mayor of "the Swiss", which was a mercenary army to serve the Dutch Prince of Orange. You can find an overview (in Dutch) of these Swiss at http://soldaten.16mb.com/dutreg/vreemde/zwitserse.htm

It is not known where Philippe (Jaymes Philippus Joseph Ernest de Caneau de Beauregard) was born. F.L.Gaasbeek writes in Het kromme rijngebied, sep 2009 jg. 43 nr. 4: "It could have been Switzerland, France, Belgium or Germany. When he married he brought in goods from France and Germany" (issuu.com/hktussenrijnenlek/docs/het_kromme-rijngebied_sep_2009_jg_4). At the baptism of his son Ferdinand the was a witness Ferdinand Philippe Caneau, who might have been the father of Philippe, and the grandfather of the child.

Helena zei op 19 april 2018 om 04:44

https://stadsarchief.breda.nl/collectie/archief/genealogische-bronnen/persons?ss=%7B%22q%22:%22boisroux%22%7D&sort=%7B%22order_i_datum%22:%22desc%22%7D&page=2
Bron: Doop-, Trouw- en Begraafregisters (DTB)
Soort registratie: trouwakte
Breda - Datum ondertrouw: 28-03-1750 [ marriage intention]
Bruidegom: Jaijme Philippe Joseph Ernst Caneau de Beauregard
Diversen: Dom. (kapitein-majoor onder de Zwitsers)
Bruid: Susanna Elisabet Helies du Boisroux
Diversen: (Douariere d'Arkel)

On 2nd Apr 1750 also marriage intention at Leersum (Huize Broekhuizen)
They married in Leersum on 17th Apr 1750 . A note in the margin reads -> the groom was R.C.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89W2-B44S?i=87&cc=2037906
Also registered in Terheijden (3 proclamations):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89QJ-MVB?i=127&cc=2037960

29 Mar 1751 -> baptism of their son Ferdinand etc. , in Leersum , (nd church (reformed, protestant)):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9W2-B41N?i=14&cc=2037906

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasteel_Broekhuizen_(Leersum)
http://www.parcbroekhuizen.nl/history/
http://historischleersum.nl/broekhuizerlaan-2/
12-1-1793 Caneau de Beauregard sells Broekhuizen to Cornelis Jan van Nellestein for 118000 gl.

Ferdinand Baron Caneau de Beauregard (perhaps the father, brother, uncle?) was associated with the establishment of a colony (1764–1766 ) in the Wolga area - Russia. With a bit of 'google-ing' you will find more on these settlements etc. Here a few:
http://cvgs.cu-portland.edu/settlements/mother_colonies/colony_beauregard.cfm
http://www.russlanddeutschegeschichte.de/geschichte/teil1/abwerbung/werber_baron.htm
His name als to be found in the book-> Human Capital: The Settlement of Foreigners in Russia 1762-1804

Perhaps an indiction where Ferdinand Baron Caneau de Beauregard came from? ->
http://gfr.foxping.com/Emigration/Emigration%20from%20Germany%20to%20Russia.pdf
see page 24 -> 'Baron de Beauregard of **Neuenburg, Switzerland**'
Neuenburg = Neuchâtel. Perhaps further research in this area French/Swiss border ?

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 19 april 2018 om 19:24

Thank you very much, dear Norah, Max and Helena!
Some of your helpful links are me already known. For example, I am not sure, that Philippe Joseph Ernest baron de Caneau de Beauregard was still alive at 1804. There are more than 100 names in this notarial record, I believe that it is just a list of clients from this notary.
In fact Broekhuizen was sold in 1793 by his daughter Angelique de Caneau de Beauregard. It seems very believable that baron was died until this date?
I believe that some evidence of this fact can be found in Leersum, Utrecht etc but I have no possibility to search there. The question is to find a professional genealogist which can help me.

Anton zei op 19 april 2018 om 19:27

Regarding the 'Russian connection' as mentioned by Helena, a quotation from Walter Kirchner, 'Emigration to Russia', The American Historical Review, Vol. 55, No. 3 (Apr., 1950), 552-566, pages 555-556:

Recruiting centers for the new settlements were set up in Amsterdam, Utrecht, Hamburg, Lübeck, Cologne, and Frankfort. None was established in Switzerland, and the agents appointed by a Baron de Caneau de Beauregard de Brockhuysen, who directed their activities from Holland, soon found themselves in grave trouble with the Swiss authorities. The chief figure among them was a Captain François Mottet from Murten, hired as a lieutenant colonel with a salary of 7,900 rubles and the promise of eight hundred arpens of land; another agent was a Captain Schnorff." Their activities were interrupted by the Swiss authorities, who reacted violently to plans that could lure away some of their best, their most enterprising citizens. All public advertising for emigration was prohibited and a great witch hunt began. Mottet himself was arrested in December, 1765, and his wife was confined to her house and forbidden to speak to anyone. Printers all over the country were warned not to work for the Mottets under penalty of arrest.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 19 april 2018 om 19:46

The activity of recruiter Baron de Caneau de Beauregard in Russia is me well known, there are a lot of documents in Russian archives and also some books, for example this: http://www.rauschenbach.ru/de/auswanderung-deutscher-kolonisten-nach-russland-im-jahre-1766-2
But where and when he died?

Geraldine zei op 19 april 2018 om 20:08

Georg. It was correct what you explained at 19.24h.
When Francois Louis Boudet Morlet x Angelique Jeanne Marie Reine Elisabeth Ernestine de Canau de Beauregard sold the goods of Broekhuizen on 22 mei 1794, Baron Caneau de Beauregard is mentioned as « wijlen », which means deceased.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 19 april 2018 om 20:14

Thank you, Geraldine! Is it possible to see the document about еthis deal?

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 19 april 2018 om 20:25

Thank you, Geraldine! Is it possible to see the document about this deal?

Max zei op 19 april 2018 om 20:51

In addition to what Helena wrote early this morning, I found a place called Beauregard in the Kanton Neuenburg in Switzerland on https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauregard.

Max zei op 19 april 2018 om 21:27

More precisely, Schloss Beauregard is ín the town of Neuenburg (Neuchâtel).
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Kulturg%C3%BCter_in_Neuenburg

Seems to me like a very plausible origin of the 'Caneau's de Beauregard'.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 19 april 2018 om 21:52

Yes, Max, one can see here Chateau de Beauregard: https://picclick.de/AK-Neuchatel-Serrieres-Chateau-de-Beauregard-1902-332607129750.html

Max zei op 19 april 2018 om 22:23

More recent pictures on flickr.com:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/40826712@N00/21595856812

Geraldine zei op 19 april 2018 om 22:37

@20.25 Here are the steps:
hetutrechtsarchief.nl
Onderzoek
Archieven
Notariële akten
Caneau OR Beauregard
Search in the order of datum (date) aflopend (latest occurrence first)
The one I mentioned was: 34-4.U275a006 W. VOORSTEEGH

Maurice zei op 20 april 2018 om 08:20

You can find the scans (mentioned above) here: http://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/onderzoek/resultaten/archieven?mivast=39&mizig=199&miadt=39&milang=nl&mizk_alle=caneau&miview=ldt

Click on the picture left and continue by using 'volgende' in the upper right corner.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 20 april 2018 om 09:02

Geraldine and Maurice, thank you very much!

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 20 april 2018 om 10:44

From the documets mentioned in @08.20 one can see that Baron was still alive in 1791. He died most probably in 1792 (or in the end of 1791). And now the question is: how to get the record in church book regarding this sorrowful fact?

Norah zei op 20 april 2018 om 11:45

Hello Georg,

You can also try to send a message to
inlichtingen@hetutrechtsarchief.nl

I'm a little bit curious, are you related to this family?
Kind regards.

Max zei op 20 april 2018 om 14:28

Finding the registration of his burial will be difficult, because there are no R.C. records of Leersum, with the assumption that he was buried as a Catholic. And as a Baron he might have been buried inside a church somewhere. There are N.H. (Dutch Reformed) burial registrations of Leersum, but not between july 1792 and january 1796. The burial of the Baron is not in there in 1691 or 1692, see scans 31 and 32 of the NH burial book:
http://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/onderzoek/resultaten/archieven?mivast=39&mizig=210&miadt=39&miaet=1&micode=DTB_RHC_ZO-Utrecht_65&minr=35757539&miview=inv2

If you are interested in drawings of the château of Broekhuijsen, you can find some at http://historischleersum.nl/prenten/

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 20 april 2018 om 19:10

@14.28. Many thanks for very helpful links!
I believe that Baron was a Catholic. May be he was burried near his wife Susanna de Bisroix...

@11.45. My great-grandgrand...father was acquainted with this same Baron de Beauregard.

Maurice zei op 20 april 2018 om 19:31

I did find a pdf that mentions that on 18-03-1793 the only heirs Francois Louis Boudet Morlet x Angelique Jeanne Marie Reine Elisabeth Ernestine de Canau de Beauregard constitute notary Willem Voorsteegh to sell goods from Broekhuizen.
I assume that he didn't die that much earlier: late 1792 or very early 1793.

http://www.rhczuidoostutrecht.com/PDF/NT00064_2482.pdf (see page 18)

I also found this: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9W2-BHC4?i=31&cc=2037906
Can somebody can confirm that it's her on the 24-07-1791 ("'t sterven van de vrouw van Broekhuysen")? They also mention personnel.

Seeing that the register ends on 23-07-1792 one might suspect that he died somewhere between that time and 18-03-1793. It might narrow it down a bit, but it's not certain in any way.


I don't know if anybody has any experience with Adelsboeken and if they might mention his death.
The 'Koninklijk Nederlandsch Genootschap voor Geslacht- en Wapenkunde' does mention their marriage ( https://www.knggw.nl/raadplegen/de-nederlandsche-leeuw/1908-26/40/ ), but I have no idea if they have more information on their deaths.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 20 april 2018 om 19:56

@19.31. It seems to me, there must be a certain time before heir can enter into the inheritance rights, about one year.

Max zei op 20 april 2018 om 21:01

Maurice is right; on 24-07-1791 the bell was tolled for an hour for the death of the Lady of Broekhuijzen, and her death was personally announced by the clergyman. But it doesn't say anything about a burial. I suppose she was buried somewhere else.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 20 april 2018 om 21:17

May be in some newspapers was published an announcement concerning the death of the Lady and her husband?

Max zei op 20 april 2018 om 22:09

No, this is what it is written in the NH burial register of Leersum 1745-1792, scan 31 (see link above).

"Den 24en Julij over 't sterven van de vrouw van Broekhuijzen een uur geluid ... 1/4/--
En de doot personeel bekent gem[aakt]."

(The 24th of Julij about the expiring of the Lady of Broekhuijzen tolled one hour Dfl. 1,20.
And the death announced personally...)

Helena zei op 21 april 2018 om 00:23

The family name 'Caneau de Beauregard' is mentioned in the following publication. It is an index of printed genealogies. You can find this via the site:
https://www.delpher.nl/ E.g. with search criteria ' caneau PROX beauregard -> https://www.delpher.nl/nl/platform/results?query=caneau+prox+beauregard&page=1&coll=platform
Title: Repertorium van gedrukte genealogieën en genealogische fragmenten
Authors: Eltjo Aldegondus Beresteyn, K. Nederlandsch genootschap voor geslacht- en wapenkunde. The Hague
Publisher: H. D. Tjeenk Willink & zoon n. v., 1933

In the publication (index) under the name 'Caneau de Beauregard' you will find a reference number '52' ; see page 23 for explanation. This refers to another publication :
Auteur: Wittert van Hoogland, E.B.B.F.
Titel: Bijdragen tot de geschiedenis der Utrechtsche ridderhofsteden en heerlijkheden
Jaar: 1909-1912
Plaats: Den Haag
Editie: 2 delen
These volumes are available in some libraries. E.g. in the library of Het Utrechts Archief ->
http://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/bibliotheek/?mode=gallery&view=table&q=Bijdragen%20tot%20de%20geschiedenis%20der%20Utrechtsche%20ridderhofsteden%20en%20heerlijkheden&page=1&reverse=0 . Perhaps you can ask for a copy of the relevant pages ...or perhaps find someone who can look this up for you. It may have more information?

Geraldine zei op 24 april 2018 om 18:39

Georg, I did write for you to Historische Kring Tussen Rijn en Lek (translated as historical society in between two rivers Rijn and Lek), after I found an article in their magazine Het Kromme-Rijngebied, 43-3 (2009) page 16/17 about the house Amstelwijk (just before image 20)
The historian answered De begraafboeken van de NH-kerk te Leersum vertonen een hiaat tussen juli 1792 en januari 1796. Ik vermoed dat hij gewoon op Broekhuizen is gestorven en wel tussen januari 1793 en 18 maart 1793. Hij verkoopt Broekhuizen zelf in januari 1793 uit de hand aan Cornelis Jan Nellesteijn en op 18 maart 1793 dragen zijn erfgenamen het goed over aan de koper.
There is a hiatus registrating burials in Leersum between July 1792 and January 1796.
Since the Baron initiated the sale himself January 12 1793 and his heirs finalized on March 18 1793, the death could be well between those dates.
Same info is mentioned on geni.com, which you listed.

•12-1-1793 Caneau de Beauregard verkoopt Broekhuizen aan Cornelis Jan van Nellestein voor 118000 gl. [515] (bron: http://www.rhczuidoostutrecht.nl/PDF/NT00064_515.pdf)
•18-03-1793 - Procuratie - tot het verzoeken om leenverlei aan de leenhoven van Darthuizen, Leersum en Overlangbroek ten behoeve van Cornelis Jan van Nellesteyn voor Broekhuizen c.a.; tot transport van Broekhuizen naar Cornelis Jan van Nellesteyn, en tot invordering van deze van rest koopsom De erven P.J.E. baron de Caneau de Beauregard en S.E. Helies du Boisroux comtesse de Rochenard, in leven echtelieden: Constituant: François Louis Beaudet de Morlet Voornaam: François Louis Beaudet Achternaam: de Morlet Rol in akte: Constituant Echtgenoot: x A.J.M.R.E.E. de Caenau de Beauregard, dochter Beroep: ci-devant capitaine au service de France Woonplaats: Buuren Philippe Joseph Ernest baron de Caneau de Beauregard S.E.H. = Susanne Elisabeth Helies du Boisroux comtesse de Rochenard A.J.M.R.E.E. = Angelique Jeanne Marie Reine Elisabeth Ernestine de Caneau de Beauregard.

I learned a lot from the wolgadeutsche.net website (with google translator)
i.e. that his firstborn died before 1767 when he names a settlement after him: Filippsfeld.
At the website Geneanet.org I see a book: Resumo histórico e genealogia dos alemães do Volga, by Carlos Alberto Schwab, which lists the group of directors led by Beauregard as French.

Best regards

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 24 april 2018 om 20:02

Thank you very much, Geraldina! As regards to the sale of Broekhuizen by Caenau de Beauregard at 12.01.1793 I believe that it was Barons daughter Angelique Jeanne Marie Reine Elisabeth Ernestine de Caneau de Beauregard.
She was a sole heiress, but it seems to be impossible to enter into the inheritance rights in two month from January till March of 1793.
We can see the autograph from Baron in the Procuratie document dated 30.08.1791. Most probably Baron died in the end of 1791. But he was not burried in Leversum as well as his wife Susanna.
I do not know if some of Boisroux had a family butial place, but van Arkel did have.
In Taxandria 1902 (thank you very much, Helena @ 21.04 00:03!) one can see that Roelof van Arkel (father of Susanna's first husband Ferdinand v. Arkel) was R.C. and that he was burried by St. Nicolaaskerk in Utrecht. Another place can be Doorn, where Ferdinand was burried.

Max zei op 24 april 2018 om 20:16

Today I had the opportunity to read the books mentioned by Helena earlier, but there was no additional information in there, except maybe, that Caneau de Beauregard was a Knight of the Ordre de la Sincerité. (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roter_Adlerorden).

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 24 april 2018 om 20:22

Max, have you find also this one:
Auteur: Wittert van Hoogland, E.B.B.F. Titel: Bijdragen tot de geschiedenis der Utrechtsche ridderhofsteden en heerlijkheden Jaar: 1909-1912?

Max zei op 24 april 2018 om 20:39

Yes, that's the one I meant (2 volumes). The only information was about the dates when first S.E. Helis du Boisroux inherited Broekhuijzen (23rd Nov 1746) and when Caneau de Beauregard became Lord of Broekhuijzen (14th May 1770), which I suppose you already knew. (And if not, you know now:)

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 24 april 2018 om 21:22

It is realy fine and now I do not need to seearch this book.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 24 april 2018 om 21:45

Geraldine, you have mentioned the article in Het Kromme-Rijngebied, 43-3 (2009). There are some interesting things discussed but without the links to any exactly sources. How do you think, is it possible to find a contact with the author, Mr. F.L.Gaasbeek?

Geraldine zei op 24 april 2018 om 22:30

You may ask the forum moderators for my e-mail address

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 24 april 2018 om 23:09

My e-mail is: cfr1766@gmail.com

Lisette Kuijper bhic zei op 25 april 2018 om 14:57

I will send Geraldine an e-mail with your e-mailaddress, Georg. Good luck with your research!

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 25 april 2018 om 17:45

Thank yoy very much, Lisette! I have already received a mail from Geraldine.

Max zei op 25 april 2018 om 18:36

In the marriage settlement of 17-04-1750 is stated (in French), that Jayme Philippe Joseph Ernest Caneau de Beauregard was "capitaine major du Regiment Suisse de Budé"
(See: http://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/onderzoek/resultaten/archieven?mivast=39&mizig=199&miadt=39&miq=1&milang=nl&misort=dt|asc&miview=tbl&mizk_alle=Caneau%20OR%20Beauregard - document nr. U167a009).

In Breda I found another record from 11-12-1758 in which he was already retired as a "capiteijn lieutenant" from the "Regiment Switsers van Collonel Budé". https://stadsarchief.breda.nl/collectie/archief/genealogische-bronnen/persons?ss={%22q%22:%22Beauregard%22}&sort={%22order_i_datum%22:%22asc%22}.

This Regiment can be found at http://web.archive.org/web/20080525161441/http://www.milwiki.nl:80/dutchregiments/index.php?n=RepInf.IR748d. It was rearranged in 1749 into the regiment Swiss Guards: http://web.archive.org/web/20080525183022/http://www.milwiki.nl:80/dutchregiments/index.php?n=RepInf.IR748b

Geraldine zei op 25 april 2018 om 19:04

Kan iemand proberen deze scan te vinden.
Het zou de periode van overlijden flink begrenzen als Beauregard hier aanwezig is en niet zijn erfgenamen.
12-1-1793 Caneau de Beauregard verkoopt Broekhuizen aan Cornelis Jan van Nellestein voor 118000 gl. [515] (bron: http://www.rhczuidoostutrecht.nl/PDF/NT00064_515.pdf

Norah zei op 25 april 2018 om 19:44

Colonel de Budé (and his family) came from the town of Geneva and her environment...

Max zei op 25 april 2018 om 20:24

@Geraldine,

That's a passage from the following book: Echte en naauwkeurige naamlyst van alle de geenen welke zich in den huwelyken staat zullen begeeven, volgens opgaave ter secretary; als meede der overleedenen, zo als dezelve ter momboirkamer zyn aangegeven alhier in de stad van Utrecht, waar achter eene lyst der verkochte huizen ... benevens ook de prijs-lijsten ... by P. Quint, 1792

https://books.google.nl/books?id=A2VaAAAAcAAJ&pg=RA4-PA5&lpg=RA4-PA5&dq=Philippe+caneau+de+beauregard&source=bl&ots=UKH0F8fjbh&sig=7iVr4tLjUZA7wckGDa2g5LrlLx4&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjen-KTt9XaAhWBy6QKHSRiD54Q6AEIUzAM#v=onepage&q=Philippe%20caneau%20de%20beauregard&f=false

Max zei op 25 april 2018 om 20:45

Sorry, the book is about the period 1792 - 1794. The date of the sale of Broekhuizen is mentioned after 19-01-1793 and before 29-01-1793.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 25 april 2018 om 21:12

A pair years ago I have met in one discussion such interesting information regarding to obtaining of Swiss citizenship :
1746, fevrier 11. de Caneau (Jacques Philippe) , natif de Soultz en Alsace, capitaine au Régiment de Reding le vieux au service de l’Espagne.

Helena zei op 25 april 2018 om 23:57

@Georg, - Perhaps you found this info [ e.g. 'au service de l'Espagne' ..etc. ] in this forum:
http://forum.wolgadeutsche.net/viewtopic.php?t=894&start=160

@Geraldine, - in het pdf document zijn regesten opgenomen van de akten in het archief van de dorpsgerechten vanDarthuizen. -- Zoek je hierop dan krijg je de melding dat deze dorpsgerechten in 1997 zijn overgedragen aan Streekarchivariaat Kromme-Rijngebied - Utrechtse Heuvelrug.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 26 april 2018 om 10:20

Yes, Helena, it was really the discussion on WD-forum. Unfortunately there where no links to the source and no answer for such question.

Geraldine zei op 26 april 2018 om 13:58

I will search in Soultz-Haut-Rhin, France

Max zei op 26 april 2018 om 14:52

@Georg,

Maybe you can find the document of 1746 in the Basel archives?
https://query.staatsarchiv.bs.ch/query/archivplansuche.aspx

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 26 april 2018 om 17:50

@Geraldine, thank you! In the meanwhile I have found in Soultz
CANEAU Jacques Philippe, Prévôt de Soultz (C) († Soultz 11.1.1747) http://www.alsace-histoire.org/fr/notices-netdba/caneau-jacques-philippe.html.
He had 4 sons, may be our heroe was one of them.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 26 april 2018 om 17:53

@Max, thank you! I have not found there any CANEAU, probably I was wrong in my searchs.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 26 april 2018 om 18:57

I can not understand one word in the marrige notice http://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/onderzoek/resultaten/archieven?mivast=39&miadt=39&miaet=54&micode=DTB_RHC_ZO-Utrecht_65.156&minr=35955753&miview=ldt&utm_source=OpenArchieven&utm_medium=browser&utm_campaign=OpenData

Left after NB: da Heer Bruidegom ???? de Roomze Religie.

Can one help me please?

Bram zei op 26 april 2018 om 20:25

Die Deutsche Übersetzung kommt gleich:

Transcriptie NL: 1750 D:2 April, zijn, op den Huize Broekhuizen, bij ons in wettigen ondertrouw opgenomen, Dom, Jaijme, Philippe, Joseph, Ernest, Caneau de Beauregard Capitein Majoor onder d Zwitzer (de Heer Bruidegom was van de Roomse Religie.) en Lysanna, Elisabeth, Helies de Boisrozen, Douaiere d’Arkel, aa dat hun HoogEdele de resolutie van Hun Ed: Mog: van den 1. Huge… nopens de ongelijke Huwelijke alvorens was voorgelezen en Bruidegom en Bruid belooft hadden, zig daer na te zullen gedragen; zijnde vervolgens Hun HoogEdele nu dat ze, te Breda de laetste verblijfplaets van den Heer Bruidegom, en ta Ter Heiden, de laetste woonplaets en Mecroune De Bruid, als hier hunne die huwelijkse voorstellingen, onverkindert, hebben gehad, op Broekhuizen, ten overstaen van twee ouderlingen en Diaconen, in den Huwelijken Staet, bevestigt. op den 19 April.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 26 april 2018 om 20:43

Thank you very much, Bram! Are you sure that there are 2 words "was van", not 1 word?

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 26 april 2018 om 20:52

And what does it mean - he was R.C. and has changed his religion? Or he remained to be R.C.? Was it possible in 1750 for an Catholic groom to get married with N.H. bride in N.H. church?

Bram zei op 26 april 2018 om 20:59

opemerking: er zitten nog een paar foutjes in de nederlandse transkriptie

Ich gib mein bestes, aber mir fehlt leider die entsprechende "alte" deutsche Sprache:

Transkription DE: 1750 D:2 April, sind, auf dem Gut "Huize Broekhuizen, zur Ehe gesetzlich bei uns eingetragen (es müsste die 3 Eheproklamationen/das Aufgebot noch folgen) Dom, Jaijme, Philippe, Joseph, Ernest, Caneau de Beauregard, Kapitän Major* unter d Zwitzer (Schweizer) (*unsicher, ob das die gleiche Deutsche Dienstgrad entspricht) (der Her Bräutigam war Katholisch.) und Lysanna, Elisabeth, Helies de Boisrozen, Wittum (also Witwe) von Arkel, nachdem dass ihre Exzellenzen (*Adelstitel) die Resolution Ihrer Ed. Mog. (*wieder ein Titel) der 1. Huge... wegen der ungleichen Ehe zuvor vorgelesen worden war und Bräutigam und Braut versprochen hatten, sich entsprechend zu verhalten; sind daraufhin Ihre Exzellenzen da nun, in Breda die letzte Bleibe der Herr Bräutigam, und in "Ter Heiden", der letzten Wohnort von Frau(lein?) die Braut, als solche drei Eheproklamationen, ungehindert, stattgefunden haben, auf "Broekhuizen", vor zwei Ältesten und Diakonen, in den Familienstand bestätigt. am 19. April.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 26 april 2018 om 21:04

Vielen-vielen Dank, lieber Brem!

Bram zei op 26 april 2018 om 21:11

ich bin kein Experte in diesem Bereich, aber von dem Text ausgehend würde ich behaupten, dass sie unterschiedlicher Religionen waren, dass auch geblieben sind und entsprechend dazu rechtlich informiert worden sind. Alle Ehen, auch die der Katholiken, müssten vor der N.H. Kirche stattfinden. Sie war die einzige staatlich anerkannte Ehe, als alternative gab es auch noch der Dingstuhl (schepenbank), aber ich bin mir im Moment nicht sicher, ob der überall als Ersatz galt. Deswegen findet man in den katholischen Gegenden der Niederlanden meisten zwei Ehe-Einträge (staatskirchlich sowie katholisch)

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 26 april 2018 om 21:33

@Bram. It is also interesting that the first child Ferdinand was babtized in N.H. church but the second - Angelique - in R.C. church.

Helena zei op 27 april 2018 om 00:18

@Georg, - It was not unusual that in a 'mixed-religion' marriage one child was baptized into the religion of one parent and the other child into that of the other parent. Often this was agreed upon (or solemnly promised) in advance at the time of marriage. Mostly (no strict rule) you will see that daughters were baptized into the mother's religion and the sons into their father's. Here it appears the other way around since the man was R.C. [...a thought...was one thinking of any future priviliges or status for boys?..It is only a guess...one can also see that persons sometimes switched religions for 'gettting the job' and v.v.].
Enfin, he was R.C. as was stated at the time of the marriage. ..

You probably know that in our country in those years up till about 1795 [French occupation] the ND church was state religion. In brief: take for instance the province of Brabant at that time...only in some places you could find more protestant inhabitants while in most parts .as an example in a village of - let us say- about 400 families one may find about 5-10 protestant families (the minister, the schoolteacher, the bailiff and aldermen.. these functions in general were given to men of the the 'right religion' only..and if not sufficient numbers men were 'imported' from other areas...or if not available then one became a bit more lenient towards a RC..) Most people in this province were RC with also some villages as RC enclaves were the state religion had no say. Thus ...were one did not need to marry first in the ND Church (or before the Aldermen) ..before a RC (or other) marriage could take place.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 27 april 2018 om 11:28

@Helena, many thanks for exhaustive explanation. In contrast to the situation in Netherland there were another rules in Russian Empire at the same time. The official and prevailing role had Orthodox Church. All heterodox christians makes their marriages in the own churches (Catholic or Protestant), and these marriages had to be fixed in the metric books of named churches. But in the case of mixed orthodox-heterodox pair the marriage can be made only in the orthodox church and the children must be baptized also in the same church.

Helena zei op 27 april 2018 om 13:21

Interesting to read about these rules in the Russian Empire at the same time.

Georg, - The Dutch Reformed Church lost its privileged position during the French times (after 1795) , when separation of church and state became fact. From 1811 onwards the only lawful marriage is the one in the civil registry. (Sometimes people still go to church after the civil registration and have a blessing in their church )

I mentioned RC enclaves in my previous contribution. alas, I went too fast and could not correct what I wrote. They were not RC enclaves, though most people were RC. I actually meant to write: These enclaves were not part of 'Staats-Brabant' and were not under the direction of government in The Hague (Hoogmogende Heeren) . State religion had no say here; couples had the choice to marry, in RC, or ND church, or Schepenbank. https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staats-Brabant https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generaliteitslanden.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 27 april 2018 om 13:34

Thank you very much, Helena! May I ask you another question: have you some information regarding to the nheritance law in Netherlands in the end of 18th century? What time should pass between opening of inheritance and entering into the inheritance rights?

Helena zei op 27 april 2018 om 14:17

I assume you are hoping to find a set time frame to be able to determine with more certainty when he died..? Sorry, I can't answer your question.
Hopefully someone else in this forum can.

[Can imagine that it took time to check on investments here (and/or abroad?), debts, bonds, usufruct of possessions, creditors, inventories etc. before clearance was given.]

Max zei op 27 april 2018 om 15:11

@Georg,

As already said before by Geraldine, it seems like the sale of Broekhuijzen was initiated by Philippe himself in january 1793. On 18-03-1793 daughter Angelique Jeanne Marie Reine Ernestine de Caneau de Beauregard, who is said to be the sole and universal heir of her late parents, and her husband have appointed Mr. Willem Voorsteegh, notary in Utrecht, to put in posession "le Très Noble Mr. Cornelis Jan van Nellesteijn, chanoine au Chapitre d'Oud-Munster à Utrecht, de auquel le Père de la Dame comparante a vendu tous ses biens fons, tels et de la manière qu'il les a possedes, consistans dans la seigneurie et cour militaria, avec ses annexes, nommez Broekhuijzen, etc." (Utrecht doc. nr. 34-4.U237a009).
This is the legal proof that what is said in the book mentioned on 25 april 2018 om 20:24 uur is true. On 15-04-1793 Cornelis Jan van Nellesteijn declares that he owes François Louis Beaudet de Morlet and his wife Angelique fl.20.000,- as remainder of the purchase of Broekhuizen.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 27 april 2018 om 16:00

@Max,
I believe there is the only way to confirm or to disprove your and Geraldina's assumption: to get a copy of the named document of 12.01.1793. I would like to order a copy, but I have no idea how to make it.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 27 april 2018 om 17:50

@Max, comparing the text you cited with the book "Echte en naauwkeurige naamlyst..." you refers, I must accept your and Geraldina's opinion. Anyway
I would like to order a copy of the named document of 12.01.1793.

Helena zei op 28 april 2018 om 07:57

more info regarding the purchase of Broekhuizen -> https://www.geni.com/people/mr-Cornelis-Jan-van-Nellesteyn/6000000016247657738
-- 09-11-1792 - verkoopovereenkomst Broekhuizen met verkoper P.J.E. baron De Caneau de Beauregard (Philippe Joseph Ernest baron de Caneau de Beauregard) (gemachtigde van zijn dochter A.J.M.R.E.E de Caneau de Beauregard) - (bron: archief Broekhuizen) Philip Joseph Ernest baron De Caneau de Beauregard, AngeliqueJaenne Marie Reine Elisabeth Ernestine (Bron: Toegangsnummer: 34-4 Notarissen in de stad Utrecht 1560-1905 Inventarisnummer: U237a009).
-- Under 'Toegangsnummer: 34-4 , Inventarisnummer U237a009 ' you can find some notary deeds online, but I can't find this sales agreement (from archief Broekhuizen), dated 09-11-1792 online. Just check with the Utrechts archief -> http://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/contact -> inlichtingen@hetutrechtsarchief.nl

And regarding the sale 2 months later: -> 12-1-1793 Caneau de Beauregard verkoopt Broekhuizen aan Cornelis Jan van Nellestein voor 118000 gl. [515] (bron: http://www.rhczuidoostutrecht.nl/PDF/NT00064_515.pdf)
-- For this you have to check with the other archivariaat -> http://www.rhczuidoostutrecht.com/ -> info@rhczuidoostutrecht.nl (N.B.: On 25 april 2018 om 23:57 uur I mentioned to Geraldine that to me it appears that the 'dorpsgerechten [ Darthuizen] in 1997 zijn overgedragen aan Streekarchivariaat Kromme-Rijngebied - Utrechtse Heuvelrug. '... Now I see both archives [ http://www.rhczuidoostutrecht.com/ and Streekarchivariaat Kromme-Rijngebied - Utrechtse Heuvelrug. ' ] are located at the same address as is noted .. Karel de Grotestraat 30, 3962 CL Wijk bij Duurstede.)

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 28 april 2018 om 09:07

@Helena, thank you very much!

Max zei op 28 april 2018 om 15:45

The date of 09-11-1792, being the date of the intentional sale of Broekhuizen, can be found in the following deed:

34-4.U275a006 W. VOORSTEEGH
Notariële akte Procuratie
Datering: 25-03-1793
Aktenummer: 11
Datum: 25-03-1793
Soort akte: Procuratie
Beginjaar: 1793
Geconstitueerde: Dirk de Ridder
Eindjaar: 1793
Constituant: Cornelis Jan van Nellestijn
Notaris: W. VOORSTEEGH
Bijzonderheden: heerlijkheid en ridderhofstad Broekhuizen; hofstede Schevichoven onder Darthuyzen en Leersum; hofstede Veresijk; het goed Poederwijk; hofstede Middelweg Broekhuizen; 18 morgen lands onder Overlangbroek; de wind- en koornmolen van Darthuyzen met de huyzinge, hooybergh, erve en hoff daaraan behorende; 1 1/2 mergen land onder Darthuyzen
Toegangsnummer: 34-4 Notarissen in de stad Utrecht 1560-1905
Inventarisnummer: U275a006

In which is written: "(..) waarvan de respective goederen door den Heer Comparant (C.J. van Nellesteijn) van wijlen de Hoog Ed. Heer J.P.E. Baron Caneau de Beauregard, Heere van Broekhuizen etc. etc. in koop aangestaan releverende zijn, en aldaar te verzoeken dat den Heer Comp[ara]nt na gedane opdragt met den zelven mag werden verleid en beleend, bestaande volgens koopconditie van dato 9en November 1792 in de volgende alsse:
Eerstelijk de Heerlijkheid en Ridderhofstad Broekhuizen, zo ook de hofstad Schevichoven gelegen onder Darthuijzen en Leersum etc."

Geraldine zei op 28 april 2018 om 17:00

Intussen is de heer Rauschenbach uit Moskou, niet alleen door jullie, maar ook door de historicus F. Gaasbeek geweldig geholpen met bestanden o.a. de pagina’s door Wittert van Hoogland over Ridderhofstad Broeckhuisen met daarbij de volgende uitleg.

Of importance are the dates 14th of May 1770 and 29th of Oct. 1792. It looks like baron Caneau got the estate on the 14th of May 1770, but that is not quite true. He is the new HULDER because the old one died. A HULDER is the person who on behalf of the owner of the fief (auf Deutsch Lehen) makes an oath and pays the tax (heergewaad). An agent actually. So he is not the owner but is qualified to handle affairs on behalf of his wife. On the 29th of October of 1792 his daughter becomes the new sworn owner and again her father can act as an agent. This means she inherited the estate/fief from her mother after more than a year. When the estate is sold it is her father who makes the deal and she the one who really can sell the place.

Dank je wel aan iedereen.

Geraldine zei op 28 april 2018 om 19:01

Zoekakten.nl
Netherlands, Utrecht Prov...Church Records, 1542-1955
Nederlands Hervormde
Leersum
Begraven 1745-1792, 1796-1811
Page 19 of 46
10 April 1766 death of Mr. van Broekhuijsen the jonger; for 4 days tolled the church bells for an hour, the 5th day for 3 hours

left page, 2nd notice from the top.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 28 april 2018 om 19:27

I would like to summarize the results of our common work in the last 10 days. Thanks to efforts of forum members together with Mr. Fred Gaasbeek we have find the answer for the first question: where and when had died Baron de Caneau de Beauregard - most probably in Broekhuizen between January and March of 1793. On the side we had get a lot of very valuable information about Baron' person, about his children, grandchildren and other relatives, and so on.
Probably we are already on the way to answer second question - where and when had our hero burn. But these searchs already lead us beyond the borders of the Netherlands. Regardless of the results of future searchs I want heartily thank the BHIC forum for your help and participation: thank you very much - vielen Dank - bol'shoe spasibo!

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 28 april 2018 om 22:47

Sorry, should read "where and when had our hero born" :)

Helena zei op 29 april 2018 om 00:05

ha-ha...it doesn't matter Georg. Understood! [Your English is good and surely easier to follow than any Russian..[ at least for me] .. ]

Good to read that you now know more about the situation around Broekhuizen than you probably knew 10 days ago..[?]. Progress!

Geraldine zei op 18 mei 2018 om 16:10

De heer Rauschenbach heeft vandaag van een gemeente archivaris van de Gemeente Soultz, dep. Haut-Rhin, Frankrijk, de geboortedata gekregen van de al jaren door hem gezochte Jacques Philippe Ernest de Canau de Beauregard, 7 Aug 1721 en die van 6 broers en zusters.

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 18 mei 2018 om 19:14

Yes, today, exactly one month after the beginning of this theme, we have got answer to the last important question! Many thanks to Geraldine and all the participants of the forum BHIC!

Maurice zei op 18 mei 2018 om 21:13

Can we send the bill now? ;-)

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 18 mei 2018 om 21:22

You are welcom!

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 18 mei 2018 om 21:22

welcome!

Helena zei op 18 mei 2018 om 22:40

Thank you Geraldine and Georg for letting us know. An international team effort with good end result -> having the exact date of birth and approximately the date of his death.

Max zei op 18 mei 2018 om 22:52

Nice!

Thanks for the info.

Wilma zei op 10 juni 2018 om 13:58

https://www.geni.com/people/Philippe-Joseph-Ernest-baron-de-Caneau-de-Beauregard/6000000026515146036 - my investication

Wilma zei op 10 juni 2018 om 18:06

Captain François Mottet from Murten = ? grave Mottet in leven generaal gouveneur van Modena en ridder in de koninglijke orde van St. Lodewijk (St. Louis) husband of Anna Maria Caneau de Beauregard

Doopinschrijving Johanna Ernestina Baudet De Morlet, 02-03-1777 http://www.hetutrechtsarchief.nl/onderzoek/resultaten/archieven?mivast=39&mizig=100&miadt=39&miaet=54&micode=DTB_RHC_ZO-Utrecht_65.156&minr=35778565&miview=ldt

Geraldine zei op 10 juni 2018 om 18:29

Jacques Philippe Ernest de Caneau heeft inderdaad een zuster
Marie-Anne (★ Soultz 26.3.1715) ∞ Louis Adolphe de Mottet, capitaine au régiment suisse de Reding puis à celui d’Apfelgrin. Il succéda en 1721 à son beau-père (de Caneau) comme prévôt de Soultz, charge qu’il exerça jusqu’au 7.8.1734.

Of Louis Adolphe de Mottet dezelfde persoon is als François Mottet betwijfel ik.
De familie de Caneau heeft vele jaren in Soultz gewoond. Waar de toevoeging de Beauregard is ontstaan is niet bekend.
Ferdinand, broer van Jacques en Maria-Anne noemde zich de Caneau de Lubach. Waar die toevoeging is ontstaan is niet bekend.

Met vriendelijke groeten

Georg Rauschenbach zei op 14 juni 2018 om 21:52

Dear friends,

I am glad to inform you that the results of our common searches are now used in an article which we together with Andreas Idt have placed on the site "Geschichte der Wolgadeutschen": http://wolgadeutsche.net/bibliothek/Caneau_de_Beauregard.pdf.
It is written in Russian but I hope that one day it will be translated in English.
Thank you very much for your very-very useful help!

Geraldine zei op 14 juni 2018 om 22:08

en hier onze namen:

В заключение хотим поблагодарить тех, кто своим энтузиазмом и бескорыстной помощью
помог нам найти ответы на главные вопросы нашего исследования. Помимо упомянутых выше
Геральдины Хувенаарс (Geraldine Hoevenaars), Фреда Гаасбейка (Fred Gaasbeek), Бертрана Рисаше
(Bertrand Risacher), Кристиана Вольффа (Christian Wolff) и Катрин Галлиат (Catherine Galliath), это
участники интернет-форума BHIC с никами Anton, Bram, Helena, Lisette Kuijper, Max, Maurice и
Norah. Большое спасибо всем – heel erg bedankt – merci beaucoup

Norah zei op 14 juni 2018 om 23:51

Heel bijzonder!

Geraldine zei op 20 juni 2018 om 13:07

@Wilma, in mijn antwoord van 10 juni maakte ik een fout.
De regel : Il succéda en 1721 à son beau-père (de Caneau) comme prévôt de Soultz, charge qu’il exerça jusqu’au 7.8.1734, dient gewist te worden.
Het was Jacques Caneau die zijn schoonvader Louis d’Aubry opvolgt.
Zie voor de tekst de bijdrage van Georg van 26 april, 17.50 uur, waarbij hij de link noemt.

Arjan Griffioen zei op 17 oktober 2020 om 12:37

Met veel genoegen heb ik deze correspondentie gelezen!
Op 9 november 1792 leefde Beauregard nog, want hij ondertekende de verkoopovereenkomst nog als vertegenwoordiger van zijn dochter.
In een akte van 11-01-1794 spreken ze over zijn erfgenamen.
Maar wat anders: De vrouw van Beauregard, Susanna Elisabeth Helies du Boisroux is een vreemd geval. Haar geboorte datum is niet eenduidig.
Ferdinand van Arkel trouwt met haar in 1734, hij is dan 64 jaar oud.
Als zij in 1676 geboren is (genealogieonline), dan is ze 54 bij haar huwelijk.
Lijkt me sterk dat ze na haar huwelijk met Beauregard nog 2 kinderen krijgt.
of: Ze is in 1688 (Geni) geboren, dan is 46 jaar oud als ze trouwt met van Arkel en 62 jaar oud als ze met Beauregard trouwt. Zie ik iets over het hoofd?
Degene die werber wordt voor de Tsarin is naar mijn mening zoon Ferdinand, hij is dan zo'n 25 jaar oud.

Geraldine zei op 17 oktober 2020 om 14:56

Dag Arjan,
De oorspronkelijke vraag heeft betrekking op het kolonialiseringsproject van Catharina II naar het Wolga gebied in Rusland 1766.
In 2019 heeft de heer Rauschenbach, samen met Andreas Idt, hierover 2 boeken gepubliceerd.

De gegevens die ik heb verzameld zijn intussen geplaatst op Geneanet.org
Zie: de CANEAU de BEAUREGARD

Met vriendelijke groeten

Arjan Griffioen zei op 5 november 2020 om 14:21

Mijn commentaar in de mail van 17 oktober 2020 is niet correct blijkt achteraf.
Van Susanna Elisabeth Helies du Boisroux zijn de geboorte- en sterfdatum niet terug te vinden. Wat wel bekend is, dat ze in 1734 trouwt met Ferdinand van Arkel. In 1750 trouwt ze met Philippe Joseph Ernest de Caneau de Beauregard.
Het verschil tussen die 2 data is 16 jaar. Ze kan dus met Beauregard nog wel 2 kinderen hebben gekregen qua leefijd. Toch iets over het hoofd gezien!
Het hele verhaal heb ik samengevat in een artikel voor het tijdschrift van de Historische Vereniging Amerongen Leersum. Belangstelling? Laat maar weten.
Met vriendelijke groeten
Arjan Griffioen
(zie ook http://historischleersum.nl)

Geraldine zei op 5 november 2020 om 14:49

Achter de schermen is over deze vraag veel onderzoek gedaan met de hulp van de heer Fred Gaasbeek, historicus.

Blijkbaar heeft U de website waarna ik heb gerefereerd niet geraadpleegd.